Worried about Breaking Dawn?

[Chernaudi]

And that's why I say being a guy who's never been "in love" isn't helping me in discussing this subject, and why I've asked for sort of a Twilight "guy's survival" thread, though I haven't heard anything from the mod I messaged about it yet.

[Tornado]

Are there enough guys here to keep it going?

[Chernaudi]

I don't know, and I don't even know if the Twi-guy's thread is alive at all, but I though it was worth a shot, as I at least don't want to feel like I'm alone here and to discuss how gender might effect how we see things and what not.

[RebeccaCullen]

Jacob also takes advantage of his friendship with Bella to try and manipulate Edward and the Cullens into doing what he want's. He may be immature, but Jacob's also smart enough to know how to try and get what he wants. I know that Jake's fighting with a lot of crap that was heaped on him, but it doesn't, as Rebecca said, doesn't seem to have bothered Seth as much for some reason.

Yes, but Seth isn't in love with Bella, which, of course, clouds Jake's judgement. Also, he resents the whole werewolf thing largely because it took him away from Bella and stopped the relationship he was developing with her, making him break his promise to help her by keeping him away. He started out hating the whole werewolf thing from the outset. Seth came in just being this nice kid who thinks it's all really exciting. Jake probably would have been the same if it hadn't been for Bella.

I'm going to call bs on that. What about Paul? He wasn't with anyone, and he's almost always angry now that he's now a shapeshifter. And what about poor Leah, who was in love with Sam and then he left her for her cousin with no explanation until her father's heart attack and change. She definitely doesn't love Bella and hates being a shifter too. And Sam wasn't in love with Bella either. He's angry over the change, and having to hurt Leah because he imprinted on Emily.

Seth is the only one that appears to not be affected by the change compared to some of the others. Sam, Leah, Paul and Jacob are the ones that openly hate/are angry at being what they are, and blame the Cullen's for something that one of their ancestors started.

[Tornado]

Rebecca, I was comparing Jacob and Seth because it had already been mentioned how similar their characters were. I wasn't bringing this in as a comparison for everyone who has phased. Jake and Seth are comparable as characters. Bella herself says that Seth reminds her of a younger Jacob, so the comparison between the two is relevant. It's clear that they have a lot of similarities. The other wolves are not as similar in their personalities, so comparisons with them have less validity.

[Openhome]

All right boys (and girls too, but let the boys go first this time)! Here you go:

The Gender Divide: http://forum.twilightlexicon.com/viewto ... =76&t=6781

[Emmettroselover]

Yay for Twi-guys!!! I know two Twi-guys and I love them dearly. I turned them both into Twilighters even if they are not Twihards.

As for Jacob, I can look at SM's constant need to defend him in two ways. As a fan, I think she defends him because he is such a polarizing character and people make it pretty clear that Edward is more of the favorite. She loves him so much that she feels the need to come to his aid at every turn. That can get a bit annoying, but it is understandable. As a writer who loves all my characters equally, it would be such a horrible feeling to write a character that you love only for that character to be interpreted into someone readers are either confused by, love, or hate. It feels like you didn't get your point across in the right way and that is a horrible feeling, a fear for a lot of writers.

SM hoped that Jacob and the imprinting would make the readers embrace everything about him or at least reach an understanding about him, but BD is a turning point for a lot of readers. It made some love him, some hate him, and some dismiss him until they were indifferent. I think she hoped that he would be as loved as Edward in his own way but that didn't happen so now she tries to fix that by defending him and the imprinting. It would be horrible to feel like the readers just do not like such a crucial plot twist. She will defend him forever because he is her character. I understand that, but it does not mean I have to like him or embrace the imprinting. Just like readers cannot change Jacob or the imprinting that so many have found as a make or break for him, at some point she has to come to terms with the reception of Breaking Dawn. I think it is a fear for most writers to have such a controversial end to such a loved saga. In that way, I want to hug her and say it is alright. As a reader and fan, I want to ask her what on earth she was doing. If she finishes Midnight Sun, all will be forgiven though lol.

The hardest thing to accept as a writer is that criticism and even hate come with the territory. You have to have very thick skin and I have learned that on a much smaller scale. The characters are so personal and intimate that it is heartbreaking when others critique them. It doesn't change that being critiqued is just part of it though.

[Tornado]

As for Jacob, I can look at SM's constant need to defend him in two ways. As a fan, I think she defends him because he is such a polarizing character and people make it pretty clear that Edward is more of the favorite. She loves him so much that she feels the need to come to his aid at every turn. That can get a bit annoying, but it is understandable. As a writer who loves all my characters equally, it would be such a horrible feeling to write a character that you love only for that character to be interpreted into someone readers are either confused by, love, or hate. It feels like you didn't get your point across in the right way and that is a horrible feeling, a fear for a lot of writers.

I couldn't agree more.

SM hoped that Jacob and the imprinting would make the readers embrace everything about him or at least reach an understanding about him, but BD is a turning point for a lot of readers. It made some love him, some hate him, and some dismiss him until they were indifferent. I think she hoped that he would be as loved as Edward in his own way but that didn't happen so now she tries to fix that by defending him and the imprinting.

The imprinting was around originally, in the Forever Dawn manuscript, so it was always where she was intending to take him. I think the negative reaction to that was probably a surprise though. I was surprised when I realised so many people had a problem with it. I was relieved when Jake imprinted, as I was pretty sure he was going to hang around, and this gave him a reason to stay without continuing to lust after Bella. I was very happy that that was all finally tidied away!

[RebeccaCullen]

I know that I'm in the minority when it comes to Jacob's role in BD, but having him imprint on a newborn baby was one of the worst things SM ever did to Jacob, and brought my annoyance and hate of the character to a whole new level. And I don't like Jacob, but saw that as cruel because he was "in love" with Bella and now is "uncle" to her new daughter and "husband" to said child if she wants it to be so.

I do think I would've been more accepting of the imprinting if it hadn't happened in BD and had Jacob not appeared in the last book because I felt that his importance to the Bella/Edward story was complete in EC.

One of the biggest things I absolutely hate about the imprinting is that any and all family moments that should've happened between Edward, Bella and their daughter just weren't there. Instead of Edward hunting with his wife and child, it was Jacob, and instead of Edward taking Renesmee to see her Grandpa Charlie with his wife, it was Jacob taking the child with Bella. There are, IMO, no moments in the books that show Edward raising his child with Bella or bonding with the two most important girls in his life other than him and Bella walking to their cottage and putting the child into bed, and that, IMO, really isn't family bonding between the three. It was always Bella, Renesmee and Jacob, and I see that as more the like family unit as opposed to Edward, Bella and Renesmee family unit.

To this day, I don't see Jacob imprinting on Renesmee as sweet and innocent because there's nothing, IMO, about the imprint being purely innocent. A very big part of me sees Jacob's imprint on Renesmee as creepy to the extreme. The Jacob that imprints in Forever Dawn isn't the same Jacob that imprints in Breaking Dawn. When SM expanded on the world she created she should've either written the books so that the ending she wanted actually worked or changed the ending because of the way the books had progressed to that point.

And by saying and insisting that Jacob and Bella fell in love, it makes the imprint look a whole lot creepier in my mind.

[Tornado]

I know that I'm in the minority when it comes to Jacob's role in BD, but having him imprint on a newborn baby was one of the worst things SM ever did to Jacob, and brought my annoyance and hate of the character to a whole new level. And I don't like Jacob, but saw that as cruel because he was "in love" with Bella and now is "uncle" to her new daughter and "husband" to said child if she wants it to be so.

I think there are quite a few people who feel that way, actually.

One of the biggest things I absolutely hate about the imprinting is that any and all family moments that should've happened between Edward, Bella and their daughter just weren't there. Instead of Edward hunting with his wife and child, it was Jacob, and instead of Edward taking Renesmee to see her Grandpa Charlie with his wife, it was Jacob taking the child with Bella.

There are very good reasons why Edward wasn't there on either occasion. Edward could not have been with them when they encountered Irina, because then he would have read her mind and known exactly what she was worried about, and they could have stopped her before she got to the Volturi. And when they went to Charlie's, Bella was planning to go off to see J Jenks, and Edward couldn't see her do that, or he would have wanted to go with Bella whevever she was going.

There are, IMO, no moments in the books that show Edward raising his child with Bella or bonding with the two most important girls in his life other than him and Bella walking to their cottage and putting the child into bed, and that, IMO, really isn't family bonding between the three. It was always Bella, Renesmee and Jacob, and I see that as more the like family unit as opposed to Edward, Bella and Renesmee family unit.

I think it's just because of the story. It's not to say that there weren't moments like this that we don't see, but there is so much going on in BD anyway that it's difficult to put too much of that in. What's more, just about every scene that goes into a novel has to advance the story in some way, and a scene of happy families for no other reason than being a scene of happy families would automatically be cut, especially in such a long book. Edward did go hunting with them in the later scene, when Bella realises that Renesmee can get around her shield, so there's every reason to think he does it regularly, but he couldn't be there for those two other scenes because the plot wouldn't have worked if he had been there.