Worried about Breaking Dawn?

[Jacobs-girl]

Sorry ladies, but I want Midnight Sun finished before anything Jacob related. I would love to get inside Edward's head. Jacob's does not appeal that much to me and I think a lot of fans would jump for joy if she completed that. Jacob's POV made me cringe at times so I think it is only fair that Edward get his chance to speak up.

Being a typical Gemini again, I want both! I read the extract from Midnight Sun on Stephenie Meyer's website and really want to read the whole thing. I hope she finishes it and releases it soon.

[Emmettroselover]

Trust me, I could sit down and talk about Twilight all day and not get bored. Twilight is engrossing most of the time

[Jacobs-girl]

Trust me, I could sit down and talk about Twilight all day and not get bored. Twilight is engrossing most of the time

It's nice to be on here and be able to gush about Twilight. Most of my friends don't like it so I'm glad there's a place like the Lex where we Twilight fans can hang out.

[RebeccaCullen]

Sorry ladies, but I want Midnight Sun finished before anything Jacob related. I would love to get inside Edward's head. Jacob's does not appeal that much to me and I think a lot of fans would jump for joy if she completed that. Jacob's POV made me cringe at times so I think it is only fair that Edward get his chance to speak up.

I would love to own a completed copy MS, and at this point, it's really the only SM thing I wanna buy with how I feel about her. Her constant defending of Jacob has been a complete turn off from buying any more of her work, and that's largely why I haven't bothered to buy the Guide(which I've read some of when I was out a while ago and only liked one or two things in it) or the Bree Tanner book (borrowed it from the library and it presented some things I thought didn't add up to what we saw in Eclipse and BD regarding the Volturi). I do own The Host, but I bought it during Boxing Week in December 2008 when I was still kinda optimistic about her writing and before I started analyzing the Twilight series and got involved with what feels like a pro-Edward board (compared to the Lex which I feel is more of a pro-Jacob board), and before I realized that she promised a story about a vampire and human falling in love and turned it into the human falling in love with a shapeshifter after having the vampire leave and gave that shapeshifter a large role in the last two books of the series instead of focusing on the vampire and human after he returned.

I'd sooner buy something with one of the Cullen couples as the star of the book before I'd buy anything about Jacob because I don't like him, and SM fawning over him. The only other thing at this point that I'd seriously consider buying would be when the Cullen's first moved to Forks and ran into the [annoying and misplaced hatefulness] pack.

[Tornado]

I'd certainly love to see Midnight Sun before anything, but I'm not counting on it! Boy, wouldn't that be great! I'd also much prefer to see the bits of Forever Dawn that we missed out on because we had Jacob's narration in Breaking Dawn. That would be something to read. When I spoke about a book on Jacob, I was discussing possible future new stories. SM has said that she might take up Renesmee or Leah's stories again, and that might include some development in Jacob's character (especially if it was about Renesmee!).

Her constant defending of Jacob has been a complete turn off from buying any more of her work, and that's largely why I haven't bothered to buy the Guide(which I've read some of when I was out a while ago and only liked one or two things in it) or the Bree Tanner book (borrowed it from the library and it presented some things I thought didn't add up to what we saw in Eclipse and BD regarding the Volturi). I do own The Host, but I bought it during Boxing Week in December 2008 when I was still kinda optimistic about her writing and before I started analyzing the Twilight series and got involved with what feels like a pro-Edward board (compared to the Lex which I feel is more of a pro-Jacob board), and before I realized that she promised a story about a vampire and human falling in love and turned it into the human falling in love with a shapeshifter after having the vampire leave and gave that shapeshifter a large role in the last two books of the series instead of focusing on the vampire and human after he returned.

I think the reason she defends Jacob so much is because some fans have been vitriolic towards him. When you love someone, as she loves Jacob (as she does all her characters), you would defend them in those circumstances. They're like your children, so you're going to leap to their defence if you feel they are being cricitised. Edward has a much larger fanbase, and plenty to defend him, so she doesn't need to defend him so much. But Jacob's fanbase is smaller and the number cricitising him quite large, hence more defence.

[RebeccaCullen]

I think the reason she defends Jacob so much is because some fans have been vitriolic towards him. When you love someone, as she loves Jacob (as she does all her characters), you would defend them in those circumstances. They're like your children, so you're going to leap to their defence if you feel they are being cricitised. Edward has a much larger fanbase, and plenty to defend him, so she doesn't need to defend him so much. But Jacob's fanbase is smaller and the number cricitising him quite large, hence more defence.

I came into possession of the books shortly after all four were released in boxset form, and find it hard to believe that Jacob is as good as SM claims him to be and constantly reiterates. From the interviews I've read and watched where she defends Jacob, I get the impression that she doesn't like the fact that Jacob isn't liked by a large portion of the fanbase and hates that some readers see him as some sort of villain. By the time he was given a larger role in NM, many of the readers had fallen in love with Edward, and wanted to see Bella with him because of the connection SM presented in TW. Had it been Jacob that we first met and fell in love with in print, then she had him cut ties off with Bella and then had Bella befriend and fall for Edward, things mighta been different. Something I hate about Jacob is that he never backed down, even when it came to Bella and Edward acting like a married couple on their honeymoon and raising their daughter. SM even had him forcing himself on Bella, both physically and emotionally, and I'm supposed to like and be okay that?

When I first read NM, I hated Jacob, and for a time after that, the only parts of that book I could read were the parts where the Cullen's where present in it. It took me over two years, and having stepped away from the books to sit down and read the NM again to see and admit that Jacob was a good friend for Bella until he left her to deal with the vampire alone, and then asking her to stay and let an innocent person die. And after rereading EC, I came to realize that it wasn't as great as I thought it was when I first read it, and I still hate BD and can't get passed the first few pages.

SM claims that Jacob is this happy kid that you'd want to be around, yet I feel the only wolf that I'd want to be around is Seth because he isn't bitter over the change like the rest of them. He was willing to accept the Cullen's on the basic human level that none of the other pack members were willing to do.

I also have a hard time buying Jacob, the high school dropout, could figure out that the fetus wanted blood over a three hundred year old vampire doctor, a mind reader, an Empath, and four other vampires. I`d sooner accept Emmett making a joke that the fetus wanted blood faster than I have Jacob thinking about it.

I'd certainly love to see Midnight Sun before anything, but I'm not counting on it! Boy, wouldn't that be great! I'd also much prefer to see the bits of Forever Dawn that we missed out on because we had Jacob's narration in Breaking Dawn. That would be something to read. When I spoke about a book on Jacob, I was discussing possible future new stories. SM has said that she might take up Renesmee or Leah's stories again, and that might include some development in Jacob's character (especially if it was about Renesmee!).

One of the reasons I don't like the last part of BD is because of the lack of proper family moments between Edward, Bella and Renesmee. All the things I thought they should've been doing as a family was done with Jacob instead, and gave me the impression that Edward wasn't the little girl's daddy, but rather Jacob was with how SM wrote it. Edward tries to keep he alive while Jacob plays house with Bella, and Bella does the naughty with Edward while their daughter sleeps. I can't think of one moment in the entire book where Edward, Bella and their daughter act as a family unit without Jacob there.

When Edward first heard Renesmee speak in the womb, that should`ve been a sweet moment, but was tinted with Jacob`s bitterness over loosing Edward`s desire to prevent the child from killing Bella. And Jacob`s bitterness over Bella being pregnant is one reason why I don`t like Renesmee, I think. I don`t like the character, but add to that, when we`re first introduced to the idea that vampires could reproduce, we read it from someone who hates the idea that the child is killing its mother from the inside unintentionally.

TBH, I don`t think stories featuring Renesmee will be any good because of how something was phrased in the Guide and how I interpreted it. If you wanna know, PM me and I'll let you know exactly what it was because I think it would be considered a spoiler.

[Chernaudi]

I have to admit that above all else I'd have to say that being a guy I've sort of avoided this problem: I'm team Bella, though that's got as much to do with Kristen as anything else.

Bella's got her flaws--lack of self knowlege/knowing exactly what she wants out of her life (until she became a vampire) and being hard on herself when others see good qualities in her.

However, the lead males are in my book even more flawed--Edward strikes me as sort of needy/clingy and possessive when it comes to Bella, but who'd blame him, not having been in love for 110 years?

Jacob, though, does seem to be worse--he's very clingy and possessive when it comes to Bella. And that sort of irritates me when Stephenie says that he has no flaws when he does. Simply, he's young and immature, which is to be expected of a teenager. He just has a problem with letting go of what he knows he can't have and accepting that he can't have it all, and that goes back to maturity.

And may'be that's why I get along with women my age more than I do guys--women seem to be more grounded, while guys tend to be more extroverted, or maybe it's just how I see things. But I'd rather have Bella as a friend among the three because she's the most like me, then it would be Edward, while I probably wouldn't hang around Jacob too much until he matures as a person a bit.

I know that this is better maybe for the love triangle topic, but I'm stating my opinions on what's being talked about now here.

[Tornado]

Can I just correct something? SM doesn't say that Jacob has no flaws. What she says is that he doesn't have a "tragic flaw". She's using a literary term. Cliff Notes defines it like this:

• A tragic flaw is a literary term that refers to a personality trait of a main character that leads to his or her downfall. In other words, a character with a tragic flaw is in need of some kind of attitude adjustment. The term usually comes up when you're studying a tragedy — that is, a piece of literature in which the main character ends up dead or otherwise defeated. In this kind of story, the main character is sometimes also called the tragic hero.

Now, while I realise you're all thinking that Jacob does need an attitude adjustment, this definition is not just talking about annoying personality traits, but about things that define the story. This quote from SM came out with New Moon, I think, so refers to that story. While Edward has a tragic flaw (that's what leads to him leaving and nearly killing himself in New Moon), Jacob doesn't as such. He is not defeated in the book in that way. He's got plenty of flaws, absolutely. I don't think SM would deny that. I think she generally excuses a lot of the things he does under the young and obnoxious banner, which is letting him get away with too much, I think, but I don't think she'd say that he had no flaws. I don't think she'd say that about any of her characters.

It's interesting what RebeccaCullen said about Seth, because the happy Jacob SM refers to is the Jacob that was originally in the books, before he started phasing and had all this baggage to deal with. In fact, in Eclipse Bella says that Seth reminds her of what Jacob used to be like. So I think the kid that Jacob used to be is still there, just buried under all this bitterness related to being drafted into the werewolf army, so to speak. This is one of the things that makes not experiencing Jacob from the inside post-imprint difficult for me. I hope finding his soul mate (and sorry to everyone who'd like him to end up with Leah - if SM ever does write the story, I don't think there's the slightest chance of it happening, no matter how hard you wish for it!) will bring back a bit of the relaxed guy he used to be.

I don't hate Jacob. I never wanted him to have Bella, but in New Moon I could see that he was going through some tough stuff. And Bella really did use him in that one. And it was no surprise he'd hate the Cullens: they're responsible for him becoming a werewolf, and he considers all vampires evil (not an unusual point of view, by any means). These reactions were to be expected. I certainly thought his behaviour in Eclipse went WAAAAAAAY too far, and I don't think his age is a good enough excuse. I know plenty of guys that age who don't behave like that. He was an obnoxious little *)%*^$, actually. But I still think the good kid is there underneath, and I'd hope, once he learns to see past his prejudices (which I think he is capable of doing and beginning to do in BD) I think he will be nice guy again.

[Chernaudi]

I still think that a lot of what Jacob does is heavily influenced by his youth and relative immaturity, while Bella "used" Jacob because Edward deserted her--that's Edward's fault, for he basically BS'd himself into leaving Bella and stopping just short of putting a knife in her heart, which you can say by leaving her is sort of what he did anyways. I don't care about his motives, you don't just do that to someone unless it really is a life or death situlation, and I doubt that any of the Cullens, even Rose, wanted to willingly harm Bella, especially if Rose knew what was good for her.

Jacob also takes advantage of his friendship with Bella to try and manipulate Edward and the Cullens into doing what he want's. He may be immature, but Jacob's also smart enough to know how to try and get what he wants. I know that Jake's fighting with a lot of crap that was heaped on him, but it doesn't, as Rebecca said, doesn't seem to have bothered Seth as much for some reason.

Of course, being a guy--a 25 year old virgin guy who to date has never seriously dated another woman who got interested in the Twilight Saga because of KS being cast in the movies--may be clouding my judgement. Opinions? Maybe there should be a topic specifically where someone like me can ask questions/give opinions on the story and discuss with this fanbase--mostly concisting of women--what it's like to be in the minoritity on this board.

[Tornado]

I still think that a lot of what Jacob does is heavily influenced by his youth and relative immaturity

Absolutely. I'm just saying that it's no excuse for his behaviour.

Jacob also takes advantage of his friendship with Bella to try and manipulate Edward and the Cullens into doing what he want's. He may be immature, but Jacob's also smart enough to know how to try and get what he wants. I know that Jake's fighting with a lot of crap that was heaped on him, but it doesn't, as Rebecca said, doesn't seem to have bothered Seth as much for some reason.

Yes, but Seth isn't in love with Bella, which, of course, clouds Jake's judgement. Also, he resents the whole werewolf thing largely because it took him away from Bella and stopped the relationship he was developing with her, making him break his promise to help her by keeping him away. He started out hating the whole werewolf thing from the outset. Seth came in just being this nice kid who thinks it's all really exciting. Jake probably would have been the same if it hadn't been for Bella.