Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Discussion of the Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn 1

Moderators: December, cullengirl

Forum rules
Click for Forum Rules
mybrandofheroin
Settled in Forks
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:06 pm

Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Post by mybrandofheroin »

I was worried a while ago when I thought they were going to try and fit the whole story line for Breaking Dawn into one movie. But once I found out that it's going to be split into two parts, I got very excited. I am a little curious as to how they're going to do the birthing scene without making it overly graphic, because they most likely want to keep the movie PG-13.
"These violent delights have violent ends, and in their triumph die, like fire and powder, which, as they kiss, consume." ~ Romeo & Juliet, Act II, Scene VI

Tornado
Member: LaPush Cliff Diving Team
Posts: 3610
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:06 pm
Location: The Land Down Under

Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Post by Tornado »

From what Bill Condon said in an interview with Josh Horowitz, he's going to keep it all from Bella's viewpoint in the birth scene. We will only see what she can see, although we'll hear it all! For example, Bella's not going to have the best view of what Edward's doing down the business end, so to speak, so she'll probably just hear a lot of noise, then he'll straighten up, with blood on his mouth, holding their baby in his arms.
Image

Jazz Girl
Making beautiful music with Edward as only I can
Posts: 5119
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Rob's HalfwayHouse, shacked up with some FicWard.

Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Post by Jazz Girl »

It must be said that I honestly wasn't too worried until I saw the ComiCon11 honeymoon scene. It felt off, wrong, too much comic relief and not enough emotional resolution. I'm apparently very lonely in this interpretation. But, now my fear is that, with so very many places where you can choose camp and funny over serious feelings and emotional story progression, which way will they go? Right now, my faith is being tested.
“Directing 7 Cullens at once=herding cats" :ROTFLMAO:
C-Dubs is TwitterRoyalty
Image
Turning Page is Gospel~Ashley=MiniMe~HHBS

marielle
Cliff Diving with Embry
Posts: 3213
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:09 am
Location: Holland, wishing for forks

Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Post by marielle »

mybrandofheroin wrote:I am a little curious as to how they're going to do the birthing scene without making it overly graphic, because they most likely want to keep the movie PG-13
After seeing HP DH2, which is also PG-13 I think that they can show quite a bit of the bloody stuff and get away with it... you just can't make a vampire movie with out blood!!! anyway what I meant in HP DH2 there was one scene that was shocking, horrific and even a bit bloody, it was the only scene for which I thought that it wasn't appropriate for 12 year old kids, not even 14 year old kids... so I think we will be able to see a lot even though it's PG-13...
Jazz Girl wrote:It must be said that I honestly wasn't too worried until I saw the ComiCon11 honeymoon scene. It felt off, wrong, too much comic relief and not enough emotional resolution. I'm apparently very lonely in this interpretation. But, now my fear is that, with so very many places where you can choose camp and funny over serious feelings and emotional story progression, which way will they go? Right now, my faith is being tested
Caryn, I haven't seen that clip yet...don't want to either... but my idea is this... I know the scene was from when they walked into the bedroom and Edward gives Bella a chance to calm down a bit... if that's a bit comical I'm okay, because a FIRST time won't go smoothly in reallife either...everybody is clumpsy and nervous so it's natural Bella and Edward are... BUT and this is a big BUT... if MR screwed up the romantic scene in the water, the sex that follows and the second night of Bella's practice makes perfect... I'll throw rotten tomatoes!!!
These violent delights, have violent endings...Like fire and gunpowder, they consume what they kiss

Image

Respect Team Robsten, Proud addict of the halfway house

Tornado
Member: LaPush Cliff Diving Team
Posts: 3610
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:06 pm
Location: The Land Down Under

Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Post by Tornado »

Jazz Girl wrote:It must be said that I honestly wasn't too worried until I saw the ComiCon11 honeymoon scene. It felt off, wrong, too much comic relief and not enough emotional resolution. I'm apparently very lonely in this interpretation. But, now my fear is that, with so very many places where you can choose camp and funny over serious feelings and emotional story progression, which way will they go? Right now, my faith is being tested
There's an interview with Bill Condon on the blog page that looks at that. I agree with Caryn on this, that it is a bit nervewracking that first time, so looking at the humour of that is not a negative thing. And I always found it a little funny in the book, too, with Bella shaving her legs and all that, and being so nervous she has to sit down! So I think that was on line with the books!
marielle wrote: BUT... if MR screwed up the romantic scene in the water, the sex that follows and the second night of Bella's practice makes perfect... I'll throw rotten tomatoes!!!
Why is everything always MR's fault? It's not SM's fault for not kicking up a fight about it, or Bill Condon's for not filming it well enough, no, it HAS to be MR's fault just because she wrote the script!
It is amazing the difference that can be made in filming and even in editing. I found the romantic element of Eclipse sadly lacking, but I got to see a copy of the script, and I was surprised to see how much more Edward and Bella love I could sense on the pages of that compared with what had come across onscreen (in spite of the #$*^&* motorcycle scene!).
A lot of elements can go into screwing up those kind of scenes. It's fair for MR to take a share of the blame, especially if those things were in the original script, but if it doesn't work there are other people who are equally, and perhaps more responsible, depending on the situation.
Image

Jazz Girl
Making beautiful music with Edward as only I can
Posts: 5119
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:25 am
Location: Rob's HalfwayHouse, shacked up with some FicWard.

Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Post by Jazz Girl »

Tornado wrote:
Jazz Girl wrote:It must be said that I honestly wasn't too worried until I saw the ComiCon11 honeymoon scene. It felt off, wrong, too much comic relief and not enough emotional resolution. I'm apparently very lonely in this interpretation. But, now my fear is that, with so very many places where you can choose camp and funny over serious feelings and emotional story progression, which way will they go? Right now, my faith is being tested
There's an interview with Bill Condon on the blog page that looks at that. I agree with Caryn on this, that it is a bit nervewracking that first time, so looking at the humour of that is not a negative thing. And I always found it a little funny in the book, too, with Bella shaving her legs and all that, and being so nervous she has to sit down! So I think that was on line with the books!
As I said, I'm apparently very lonely in this interpretation, as I didn't find it funny in the books at all. I found Bella's nervous energy and her freaking out a bit to be absolutely true-to-form. But, why does it have to be cheesy and funny? Why do we have to be led to laugh at her clumsiness and her nerves? Why can't it go the other way and acknowledge those nerves, Bella's realization that there's no way that she could be that vulnerable with anyone except Edward and her attempts to disapate her nervous energy without making a joke of them? Can you imagine being in Bella's shoes, knowing that people thought your nerves and concerns were funny, things to be pointed and laughed at? To me, it was more of an emotional equilibrium moment; Bella realizing that her nerves were normal and that she had to take control because Edward would see her nerves and react as only he ever would.
Tornado wrote: Why is everything always MR's fault? It's not SM's fault for not kicking up a fight about it, or Bill Condon's for not filming it well enough, no, it HAS to be MR's fault just because she wrote the script!
It is amazing the difference that can be made in filming and even in editing. I found the romantic element of Eclipse sadly lacking, but I got to see a copy of the script, and I was surprised to see how much more Edward and Bella love I could sense on the pages of that compared with what had come across onscreen (in spite of the #$*^&* motorcycle scene!).
A lot of elements can go into screwing up those kind of scenes. It's fair for MR to take a share of the blame, especially if those things were in the original script, but if it doesn't work there are other people who are equally, and perhaps more responsible, depending on the situation
MR doesn't bear soul responsibility. But, she deserves her fair share. To this point, her glaring and, at times, downright ridiculous curves away from canon, away from the true characters and realities of The Saga, far outweigh any attempts she made to honour those same characters and stories. And, given the understanding that she did, in fact side against SM more often than not when SM tried to fight for the truth of the novels, it's very hard to have any sympathy for her at all.
“Directing 7 Cullens at once=herding cats" :ROTFLMAO:
C-Dubs is TwitterRoyalty
Image
Turning Page is Gospel~Ashley=MiniMe~HHBS

Tornado
Member: LaPush Cliff Diving Team
Posts: 3610
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:06 pm
Location: The Land Down Under

Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Post by Tornado »

Jazz Girl wrote:As I said, I'm apparently very lonely in this interpretation, as I didn't find it funny in the books at all. I found Bella's nervous energy and her freaking out a bit to be absolutely true-to-form. But, why does it have to be cheesy and funny? Why do we have to be led to laugh at her clumsiness and her nerves?
I see it as laughing with her, rather than laughing at her. I can relate totally to her nerves on this issue, and I think it's sweet to see it in this light. But, horses for courses. It's not going to appeal to everybody.

Jazz Girl wrote:MR doesn't bear soul responsibility. But, she deserves her fair share.
Absolutely. I just see more vitriol poured out over her than anyone else involved, be it directors, producers, editors, etc. Everyone seems inclined to blame MR for everything they didn't like, and congratulate everyone else on the things they did like.
Jazz Girl wrote:she did, in fact side against SM more often than not when SM tried to fight for the truth of the novels, it's very hard to have any sympathy for her at all.
I know she sided against SM on the motorcycle scene, but which were the others? I've seen her blamed for heaps of things that I've discovered via various interviews, etc, were nothing to do with her (hell, some people have even blamed her if they didn't like the music, like she had anything to do with that!).
Image

Chernaudi
Tantalizing Men With Rosalie
Posts: 2362
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:01 am
Location: Mansfield, OH, USA

Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Post by Chernaudi »

If it wasn't for the screenwriters, films wouldn't get written unless the person who came up with the story, actors, or director or producer takes it upon themselves to write it. We're not talking singer/songwriters here, we're talking film writing, which is a different ball game.

I know that actors and directors and such deserve to have some input, but they shouldn't have to do all the stuff that the cast has had to do with MR's scripts. She's deviated from canon way too much and sometimes way to glarinly, often not for the good of the film. And it does seem that she put stuff in that Stephenie and the cast advised against even after they gave their advice.

I know that writers sometimes take creative liberty, but on New Moon, Chris, Kristen, Taylor and Rob had to edit the scripts themselves when they felt that something was admiss, and Kristen, Rob, Taylor, Bill and Stephanie did the same with BD. You can question on Eclipse if DS didn't care as much about the romance as opposed to the action/suspense element, so he is perhaps deserving of some blame there. But there are times where liberties should be taken, and times where it's best to leave things alone, be it writer or director.

I think that maybe because MR is too used to writing Dexter (a hour-long crime comedy-drama show aimed at adults) and that style in an of itself doesn't work for two hour long romance movies aimed at teens/young adults. Whatever it is, there have been times where she should've stock to canon. The Twilight Saga novels aren't the best things ever written, but the fans enjoy them in spite of their flaws. I do think that the movies should be treated the same way, but it would've been nice if they stuck a little closer to canon, like the bike scene in Eclipse and the fight in the Volturi Hall in New Moon.
Audi, Twilight, Cher, Pink Floyd, symphonic/progressive rock, KStew, RP, Bio-Booster Armor Guyver-what's not to like

Team Renesmee, Team Bella, Team Edward.

Fan fic stories: http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2192109/

Tornado
Member: LaPush Cliff Diving Team
Posts: 3610
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:06 pm
Location: The Land Down Under

Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Post by Tornado »

Chernaudi wrote:If it wasn't for the screenwriters, films wouldn't get written unless the person who came up with the story, actors, or director or producer takes it upon themselves to write it. We're not talking singer/songwriters here, we're talking film writing, which is a different ball game.

I know that actors and directors and such deserve to have some input, but they shouldn't have to do all the stuff that the cast has had to do with MR's scripts. She's deviated from canon way too much and sometimes way to glarinly, often not for the good of the film. And it does seem that she put stuff in that Stephenie and the cast advised against even after they gave their advice.
Actually, changing scripts after they are written is very normal and expected. One person told me, "As soon as they buy your script they will hire someone to rewrite it." Virtually no script ever goes to screen without any number of changes, based on what the director and actors want. Even then, after it's filmed things are cut out and/or changed in the editing process.

I know that MR put the motorcycle scene in in spite of SM's objections, and that the scene in New Moon when Jacob went to Bella's room was reinstated by Chris Weitz at SM's request after the script was finalised, but I don't know of any other areas where she didn't put something in in spite of objections to it. The only other instance I can think of is also with New Moon, where the scene in the cinema with Jake and Mike was cut and Taylor and Kristen asked for it to be reinstated. That was still in the script development stage though, as Mike Welch has been quoted as saying that by the time he got the script it was in there. So that was when it was still being developed, so things were still open to be changed.
I must confess I find it ironic that MR, who is so often accused of being Team Jacob, is credited with cutting two scenes whose absence would have enraged every Team Jacob fan out there.

It seems that Kristen asked Bill about putting some things into BD, but I'd really like to know what they were and how major they were before I lay charges of unnecessary change at MR's door.
Chernaudi wrote:I think that maybe because MR is too used to writing Dexter (a hour-long crime comedy-drama show aimed at adults) and that style in an of itself doesn't work for two hour long romance movies aimed at teens/young adults. Whatever it is, there have been times where she should've stock to canon. The Twilight Saga novels aren't the best things ever written, but the fans enjoy them in spite of their flaws. I do think that the movies should be treated the same way, but it would've been nice if they stuck a little closer to canon, like the bike scene in Eclipse and the fight in the Volturi Hall in New Moon.
Sometimes changing it up a little can be good, and certainly necessary; things in books don't always transfer well to screen. My favourite movie of the series so far is Twilight, which had the most changes in it. I felt that the scene where Bella tells Edward that she knows he's a vampire, for example, worked far better in the woods than it did in a car. I also much preferred Edward's proposal in the movie of Eclipse to the one in the book. Why did MR change it? I don't know. But it worked for me, and I guess that's the problem. Whatever her reason for that change, it worked for some.
I remember too, that in the Eclipse DVD commentary (if I remember rightly!) SM thought that the movie version of Bella asking Edward to stay with her during the fight worked better than the one in the book. I also remember hearing her comment that she wished she'd thought of Bella waking up (in Twilight) and seeing Edward in her room, and thinking it was a dream.
And I really don't think that the fight at the end of New Moon was all MR's idea. I'd say that the Powers that Be suggested that a fight would be a good idea to liven it up a bit. I didn't have a real problem with it, and I know some people much preferred it that way. It's kind of like the scene at the end of BD. I've heard fans argue passionately for it to be just like the book, but others argue just as hard for some kind of fight. I wonder which group will be disappointed?
So change doesn't have to be a bad or negative thing, and sometimes it can help reinforce the visual medium. But I think it's better to know the reasoning behind the changes, or at least give the person the benefit of the doubt before we suggest that it must mean they're bad at their job, ignorant or uncaring.
Image

Emmettroselover
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:25 pm
Location: Jasper's Old Hunting Grounds
Contact:

Re: Worried about Breaking Dawn?

Post by Emmettroselover »

The fact that she goes against SM in general on crucial scenes baffles me so when she decides to do that like with the motorcycle scene and fans react negatively toward her because of it, I dont feel sympathy for her. She took a risk and it failed. SM wrote the books, her word should be golden when it comes to how the characters should act because she wrote them. SM is not perfect but it is her story so now it makes sense why she probably wanted to be more involved. It makes it much harder for MR to overrule her if she is actively participating in the filming process.

@Tornado, I know you are going to defend MR as much as possible, but if you read the HP books and watch the films, it is proof that a script can stay extremely close to the original and do the books justice. Yes things were taken out, but you could tell they were because there just wasnt enough time. Admitting that MR has made tons of mistakes with the writing doesnt peg her as some horrible writer. It reminds me of what happened with Slade. He did not do well IMO as the director for Eclipse, but that doesnt make him a bad director. It made him a bad fit. I think MR is a bad fit for these films. She can't seem to keep her personal preferences out at times, she has actively made sure scenes were changed and they end up usually sparking outrage, and a lot of people have not been impressed with her for some time now. I dont think anyone on here is saying MR holds absolute and complete blame, but she definitely holds a fair share.
Image

Post Reply